I see ExpressionEngine as an ideal model, where you get the core engine with all features and functionality for free for personal use, and commercial licenses come with a cost. Granted their forums, etc., are for an extra fee, but are outside of the core functionality. This would benefit the end users as well as yourselves, who are developing it.

People who think that decision to go with commercial license is sudden should check out Status update followup post. Comments related to that decision should be posted in that topic, not here. Also, read the post and comments… Many things are already said.

Initial comments are moved to that discussion.

@Wes: Yes. I do admire what folks at EllisLab (authors of Expression Engine) are doing. They show that this model can work pretty well for everyone.

For us as a nonprofit i’ll take a very close look to the free version. We dont want to spend money on software – our donations are needed elsewhere.

we are evaluating AC 0.7.1 atm. looks very very good!

“The foundation of activeCollab on which we are working on is so flexible that we will be able to build almost anything on top of it ”

Oh dear, this type of comment means it will never ship…

Focus focus focus please. I want AC to succeed.

If i understood, unfortunelly, the many hoped features for my little webdevelopment corporation will be released only on commercial version… I’m really really sad with this, ‘cos with this new features available, activeCollab will be as simple as BaseCamp an as Project Management Full Featured as DotProject.

I’m really sad an i hope you reconsider this point.

Best,

Yuri Teixeira.

Thanks for the update Ilija.

Could you please make a table of features of the pro vs. lite as soon as its finalized so we know which one will have what features. As it stands, we dont know what the new features are, or which version they are in. Whenever you are ready… :)

@mozami.net: We do have a feature matrix on our whiteboard, but we are not comfortable with making it public just yet. What features are you interested in particular?

Can’t wait to see the new version. I understand it will feature ajax which makes the interfact and use so much better(like on basecamp!) When will it be launched, how much will it cost and how easy will it be to migrate from the current version.
Maybe you’ve answered these questions earlier… sorry about the repeat….

ps. considered putting in something on the lines of google spreadsheets? Soooo powerful!

I am very sad to hear that activeCollab would take a commercial path. My firm has been looking at activeCollab for a few months and we were planing to contribute to the project with our summertime interns. Unfortunately, we won’t if there is any chance that this software is not perpetually 100% Open Source.

That would be a shame to loose the “100% open source, 100% free” from the frontage.

In my opinion, going commercial may allow the development team to survive in the market, but I doubt it would make of activeCollab the next YouTube (whether it’s the goal or not). Just go back a few years and think of phpBB; how has it held its popularity when there were so many other forum solutions out there? It never went commercial and many people started customizing it.

Please reconsider.

Ilija. Thanks for your reply. Ive been using active collab since Jan this year and i dont think i have any fancy requests – just the usual ones that have been mentioned around the forums already and are already on your roadmap too (time tracking, better search, UI, etc etc). If some of these features fall under the commercial version, and as long as its an installable script – i will definitely consider using the pro version – no question about it.

I know the feature list wouldn’t be available just yet – thats why i added the line “Whenever you are ready… :)” Its just that its been a while since the last release and I am looking forward to whatever comes out of the collab-labs.

@Max: Why not pick up the source from the current 0.xx branch and continue development with “100% open source, 100% free” license – there is nothing stopping you from doing that. Im sure someone will, eventually as the current version is still very great product – 100% gratis! – If your firm is serious about it that is.

I am not opposed to the idea of two feature sets for a paid and free version. I would suggest though, that a pay model should be a one time liscense fee. The problem I have with Basecamp is that it is like renting software – when I want want to buy it and host it myself – thats the model my company is after.

Also – due dates for tasks – that would be key.

Once this thing hits 1.0 – are there going to be projects in place to help with integration of our services. We would love to tie this into our CRM and e-Commerce platforms.

I think the pro version makes a lot of sense. I am using AC in a corporate environment and dont mind spending the dollars for an enhanced version that could streamline by internal workflow. The saving/return I get from an app like this pays for itself by creating efficiencies and speeding up output.

In the interim my company has created a new theme based on Go Plan that has really helped the understanding and adoption of AC with my team. It has really improved the UI as we wait for the next release. If there is interest I would be willing to post it for others to take advantage of.

Eric: I would really like to see the new theme you made. I’m a current BaseCamp user, but want something I can host on our servers. While AC is nice, the interface lacks the polish and usability of BaseCamp. When I showed both to some collegues, hands down they chose BaseCamp. So if your theme makes it easier to use, I would love to try it out. Maybe you can post it in the forum section?

Really, all the features that you all say are nice, BUT this is what this tool really needs management tools.

1. Time managment – there is nothing that remotely can help you manage time and show you which tasks are due when
Basically a calendar is needed, and a way to add due dates to PROJECTS and TASKS, not only milestones.

2. Dependencies between tasks / milestones and email notifications that one task was accomplished so that the next one can be started.

3. Different views of project/tasks interralation on a time chart (a Gant chart?).

4. Dashboard should show similarly to MS Outlook’s “TODAY” screen – what is up today what is due when for the next week or so. So it is readable, and not only show newest changes, etc.

Other than that are cosmetics. nothing important.

@Eric – I would personally be very interested in checking out what you did as well. Thanks!

After several years of using our own project management system, then testing all that’s out there for about a year, and then finally deciding on aC we released it to a client. Literally days after we did that the announcement was made that the direction of aC was changing slightly.

There were many changes and fixes that have been promised for the 0.xx branch. I have a hard time paying a company for an app when they didn’t deliver on previous promises. If the decision had been that this change would take place after the promised changes had been implemented, that would be a different story.

From a business standpoint, burning your prospective customers is a very bad move.

@GD: You are right, but I would like to make clear that we didn’t move away from changes you are mentioning (my guess is that you are talking about features like time tracking, wiki, better handling of large files, project templates…) What changed is the version number.

We can easily call next version 0.8 but that would still tell all business users that activeCollab is not stable for production and that it can take big shifts in development. There is no reason for that any more. We can go with 1.0 – there is a clear roadmap and we want to show that activeCollab is ready for production use.

One of the most important reasons for going commercial is to have a team of developers that will support and improve the software without worrying if they will be able to pay the bills next month. There is nothing better for a software product that focus and dedication. Anyone who needed to work on more than one large scale project at the same time knows that.

Sorry if this has been answered before. But do we have an estimate for when version 1.* will be released? Weeks…months?

Follow-up to my last question: The reason I ask is because we are looking for a project management system to integrate with our CRM. Should we go ahead and pay someone to integrate right now with 0.7.1, or wait until 1.*? Thanks.

We are using basejumper’s version of AC so in a way I am already on the path of a commercial release. I used PHProjekt for about 4 years and saw it degenerate into a complete mess. Opensource per se is not always the best way to produce software. If you can get the balance right between a commercial version that helps to fund a for free version then I would be happy to fork out for that.

Whatever you do make sure you get a Good API up and running. With a good API you don’t have to angst about feature requests as other developers will fill the feature holes you leave :-)

I would also like to know the availability date for v1.0. I want to see if I should use v0.7.1 or should I wait for v1.0. If we go with v0.7.1, will there be an upgrade path to v1.0?

I don’t mind paying for v1.0 as long as it is a one-time license fee. You could charge for (custom)install, upgrades and/or services, not bug fixes :).

Eric: I would also like to see themes for v0.7.1. I know this is not the right forum to ask, but is there a forum where people share their v0.7.1 themes? Thanks.

Hi Yusuf,

There is no precise date for activeCollab 1.0 launch, but we will ship during summer 2007. activeCollab 1.0 will be able to import data from 0.7.1. It will be one time fee where you pay for major upgrades (2.0, 3.0 etc) or for yearly access to updates. We are yet to decide about that, but it will not be anything unusual (this models are standard in software industry).

I understand the dilemma in choosing what should go with what version. Perhaps it would help to offer some of the more advanced features that a non-profit organization would use as optional add-ons to the free version, so it’s not so bloated for the average free user, but is also very flexible.

I think this would greatly increase the number of users, as many people may be looking for specific features, and can’t afford (or don’t want to pay for) a commercial version. yet you could still reserve the most advanced features for the commercial version.

Although I’m annoyed that this will no longer be open source, I like AC enough that I will pay for the commercial version. I’d pay quite a lot for it.

However, to me, the most important reason to use AC was that I could install it on my own server.

Please reassure us that we will still be able to install this on our own systems, skin it and theme as we wish, etc.

For many of us, we are not legally permitted to trust our data to systems outside our network. Others just don’t want to trust others with their data. Maybe we want it intranet only. etc.

Andrew, we repeated this many times – you will be able to install activeCollab on your server. There is a lot of people who can’t use hosted solution and/or want control over the application.

@Eric, would you kindly post your theme? It would be most appreciated!

HI,
First off, do what you need to succeed. Commercial is fine, and anyone can use the 0.7.1 version for the rest of time, or make it better.

That said, i think the needs of a small non-profit are much more aligned with a small business rather than a 20 year old student. We could certainly use PDF output; that’s why we use OpenOffice. We also use Alfresco and Confluence, which provide very robust products for our organzation.

You can see:
http://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence/pricing.jsp

Perhaps you could consider a license for registered non-profits, like Confluence does. That way, your true “business” user base would be larger, and eventually some of the non-profit clients might want to upgrade to better support or whatever.

Thanks,
mark

Hey Ilija,

Just wanted to say we’re looking forward to 1.0 in the summer! I plan on getting a pro package (as long as it isn’t too expensive :)

Also, I think you should also release one of these cool “2.0” looking sites ( panic.com , 37 signals, etc). I think it’ll help ya sell the next version. Just a thought, take care!

Waiting for v1.0 pro version. Please try to release as quickly as possible

Not too quickly though. Don’t pull a Microsoft.

Sorry this took awhile, haven’t checked back in a while. Here is a link to the Go Plan inspired theme. Just drop this folder into your ‘themes’ folder and then you can select it from inside the admin panel.

http://10north.com/public/goPlan.zip

Just do the same thing as basecamp. Setup a sever with activeCollab and charge a montly fee, and maintain the project opensource for the rest.

Nice theme Eric. Have you tested it with Firefox?

I’m a graduate student working in research lab. We have no need for charts, PDF reports, time sheets or other gadgets that are typical for a business environment, but some of the features of document editing and attachments would be very very useful for us. We’re just students though that use it, so for us, it would depend on what features are available in the pro vs lite, and if we needed to go pro, what the cost would be (tiered pricing for broke people like us?)

Hi Jason,

I can’t promise you anything at this point, but we’ll try to help students and non-profit organizations as much as possible.

If you are able to get a lot of students using ActiveCollab, then they may later on become paying customers after they graduate and start working. It may become a long-term business strategy.

@Ilja,

I run an open source project (www.openlp.org) and we use activeCollab because it’s the best darn open source project management tool out there.

Can you make sure that features that we would need are in the lite version? If not, can you give us a license, since we most certainly can’t afford to pay for aC.

@Raoul: What features do you use? We cannot promise you that all features you need will be available in free version, but we are considering some options for non-profit and academic organizations. When decision gets made details will be posted for everyone to see…

Ilija,

Very sorry if this question has been asked before. I know that the pro version will have an API, but will the code be editable (e.g. SugarCRM “Commercial” Open Source)?

Thanks

Hi Dan,

We haven’t yet decided on exact license, but Commercial Open Source used by SugarCRM and some other projects is one of the options that we are evaluating.

I would recommend one of two things:

1. Have the lite version be exactly the same as the full version, except that the full version allows more users.

2. Or, have a Lite version which is free, and a Commercial version which free for a low number of users, but you have to pay for it if you have a high number of users.

I think it would be an important thing to have the Commercial version available for free to small business owners, who could start to pay for it as their business grows. How does this sound?

Thanks,
Jacob

Hi Magician,

Idea of making a different packages based on number of users / clients / projects so smaller organizations can get the software cheaper sounds OK to me, but if you are a business (no matter how small you are) and need business features you will need to buy commercial license to get them.

my opinion is that there should be ONE version, and the user is left up to make it as feature rich as he/she wants with the use of plugins.

for instance, an invoice plugin, or a time tracking plugin. these can be added seperately to the initial default install.

plugins really are the only way to go. the pro version might have some features someone might not want, but might have ONE valuable feature that isn’t worth the upgrade.

anyway, i think sticking with ONE strong version is best, and let the community of plugins do the custom work for everyone.

i haven’t read all the posts above, so i’m not sure if i’m duplicating someone else’s opinion. sorry if i am.

You should remove “100% free” from your home page now that you’re working on a pro version with additional features. It should be more like “50% free” or “80% free.”

@Scott: Yeah, you are right. Still, we have a major site reconstruction and we’ll do that then. Good thing is that existing code is still provided under the terms of FLOSS license so the statement on the homepage is not false.

Well, there are a lot of small business or personal-development teams who need the features common known as “for business” but can’t afford the payment of a tool they don’t use now. Diferenciating the commercial and the free version by its features is very dangerous, you don’t know wich features needs everyone. A good way of diferenciating would be by the amount of data/projects/users the tool can handle. Don’t doing this only leads to benefit the big enterprises and not the other users.

Please, think in your users, not only in “the users who can pay”. Use the commercial version to finance the development of a great and widespread tool which helps people in their work, not to “get rich” developing a great tool that costs money, forgetting the 80% of your users.

I’m using activeCollab to coordinate the activities of the students working in the Open Source Laboratory I’m starting at my university. As an open source lab we won’t pay for commercial software but we’d be happy to contribute to the open source version.

For us, time tracking and so on aren’t necessary.

For us, a wiki is the only really important missing component in activeCollab. Currently we combine activeCollab with dokuwiki which is similar in its light weight and ease of use, but of course it would be more convenient if the wiki was integrated with activeCollab.

If the floss version was somehow limited in terms of users or amount of data (not sure how would that even be possible in an open source product) we would stop using activeCollab immediately.

Anyway, we like activeCollab a lot and hope that the open source version grows and prospers, however you choose to earn your bread and butter.

The important thing is to keep the lite version complete. Time tracking is not a must but a calender and some sort of due dates features for tasks are important features that should be in the lite version.

Please don’t remove anything that already exists in the lite version.

I am interested in the plug-in idea? Does this mean that others can develop plug-ins for special features. If so this is great.

I think that you should release one version. Forget about this lite/pro issue. Offer a free version for download and a hosted/managed version for a fee. I think that you would be amazed at the number of users who would pay for a hosted version.

I have a few questions:

What is the (order of magnitude of the) price of the pro version? Is it per-installation, or per-user?

Any plans for the extent of support for pro users? Certainly, bugs need fixing, but feature requests will probably be influenced more by the paying customers?

I want to totally echo the comments here about the lite/pro versions. Keep the whole codebase open source. There are good business models for open source code/hosted solutions (Wordpress comes to mind).

It would be a shame to lose users. I’m sure that if the features I’d want aren’t in the free version of active collab, I’d either keep using 0.7 until I couldn’t, or look elsewhere.

I think you should do something similar to what SugarCRM does. The free version is a full featured application that has features a small business would need. The commercial versions have “killer features” that larger companies “must have” but the little guys don’t necessarily need (but could get if they wanted to). For example, their Outlook Sync module only is available in the commercial version or as a purchased add-on.

This way you have the best of both worlds. Keep the core open-source and get people to contribute to it. Release modules that enhanced the product that are paid.S

There are always x1000 features that people want and they are usually based on their own needs. Basic rule is, you cant please all the people all the time. Unless, you are Microsoft and what a mess they have made of it. Over bloated, heavyweight applications that behave like a dinosaur.

ActiveCollab needs to remain lightweight in the core codebase, but allow users and developers to add plugins. This way any user can start off with a basic feature-set and add what they want as a plugin.

Surely this is the best way to …

1- keep the application lightweight
2- Allow users to design and choose their own features from plugins
3- Open the way for developers to expand the features through plugins.
4- Keep the core codebase clean and easy to maintain.

I predict that a well designed, well documented plugin system will open a floodgate of possibilities with active-collab.

So how do you benefit from a commercial version?

1- Offer quick email response support to the core application.
2- Plugin developers offer same quick response for their plugins.
3- Custom design service for business setups.
4- Custom plugin design and build.
5- Company Branding design service
6- Online chat for instant help.
7- Hosted solutions for all-in-house deployments of aC.
8- Access to dedicated premium knowledge-base.

Most business applications will opt for a commercial service that offers the points 1-8 because it offers them quick and focussed solutions. At the same time O/S users still have access to all the goodies, but need to input their own labor and skills to the system.

One main reason that we moved to ActiveCollab was for it extensive feature set for an Open Source program. If we had to start paying for ActiveCollab for the same set of features we are using now, it could mean we find another solution. We have loved ActiveCollab, but the price tag helps alot for a smaller organization like ourselves.
– Daniel
crucedesign.com

I must say that in order to pay for AC it will need to be very good, blow basecamp out of the water. Currently I find that it has 1/4 the features of other collaboration apps (dotproject, openoffice etc..), it only wins over those because it is better looking (at the moment that is it). If we need to pay for this we may be tempted to go with basecamp, after all they are very well accepted and have great full set of features.

I have been using AC on the side for a few months now, but I can’t stop using my old phpCollab since the later has much more to offer (namely task management), even if it looks like something the cat drug in. Hope you guys don’t blow it with the pro version.

Remember your roots, you built AC because you did not want to spend on BaseCamp, I guess that someone will build another alternative if they need to pay for AC. As you originally stated this is just a blog with some special features :-)

Things this app needs (the free version) in order to be serious:
1) task management
2) calender
3) plug-ins / api

I hope that you guys are planning something great with the next version. I will be waiting anxiously. But I must admit that I am not to pleased with the direction that this fine example of open source application is taking. I don’t understand why go pro, wordpress, sugarCRM, Joomla have great models and have become industry leaders. Just hope that by going pro you don’t scare away your user base which came here BECAUSE it was free, not because they did not like basecamp but because they could not afford it. I also hope that you don’t offer a washed down and limited version of AC for free (as the basecamp example, what good is a collab app that can’t upload files to).

I must say that on a personal level I feel let down by the introduction of a pro version, and the fact that you choose to call the free one a ‘lite’ version scares me (would have been much better marketing to cal it an open source version, the lite tends to mean lesser which is not good). However I trust (ie hope) that you will blow our skeptical minds when you release the new ‘lite’ version and it is more of what we have come to expect from AC.

This will be an interesting case study…will the community accept a pro version? Will the ‘lite’ version be enough to keep the community happy. I wonder what would happen to WordPress if they took this route. I know that WP is market leader because it is free, there are other options that are as good as WP but are hardly as successful as WP because they charge.

* I seriously doubt that the free/pay difference will be anything about limiting users. It’s pretty easy to get around that sort of thing if you have the source code, and it would mean that the transition is a downgrade for some users.
* I’m betting that a lot of the ++ features can be imitated with plugins, so you’ll be able to do the same functionality, but with less robustness in theory. As we’ve seen before, the real killer feature of paid software is someone on the phone to talk to when it stops working, and periodic, reliable updates.
* I think Ilja’s a pretty bright guy, give him time.

Although, if plugin support is stripped from lite, then that sort of changes my opinion.

Doing a pro and free version is an fatal marketing error …

Make money around …

* with certification of local partners
* with a market place for addons
* with premium support
* with training services
* with installation services

Or make the choice of two version like SugarCrm …
but don’t be surprised by a creation of a folk like VTiger …

Not yet ready to understand ? Just take a look on a trend …
http://www.google.fr/trends?q=SugarCrm%2C+Vtiger

This way you have the best of both worlds. Keep the core open-source and get people to contribute to it. Release modules that enhanced the product that are paid.

Hello,

I want to know some questions, if is possible :

Is possible to include Gantt chart graphic for the project management ?

Is possible to assign tasks not only to “people” involved in the project, but also to connect tasks with other data bases involved in the project, and by this way assign tasks to one or more fields in one or more tables in others DB ? Or simply assign tasks to one or more SQL request… with some boolean conditions for consider the task automaticaly finish or not…

Do you have one date for starting AC 1.0 ?
What is the price you consider for the AC Pro version ?
Thank you for your answers (excuse my little english)
Mario

Hi Mario,

There is no built in support for Gantt charts, but you are free to develop it as a plugin and add it to the system.

Tasks are made simpe – they can be assigned to people only and your users are responsible for marking them as completed.

Launch date and pricing model are not yet announced. We will provide this information in due time.

Thanks :)