Question about development, plugins etc
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businessman
on Oct 7. 2006. 12:54 am
I am really having a hard time with something. I want to build my own, I am redoing my entire web development site, I am building a contact management system, link management system, and code management all custom for my site. I was going to build a project management system custom too, but I see way to many things in here, that would take me awhile to get together. Especially in my spare time, and one thing I am still have some issues with after all this time, is file handling.
I wanted to ask a few questions about further releases of active collab to decide if I should still with it, or custom build one, if someone could answer these questions I Would greatly appreciate it.
1. I now have version 0.7, are you going to be developing on this permanently. Meaning is it something you are going to constantly be developing on, from now, until a specific time, or permanently.
2. When is the release date idea for version 0.8, and 0.9, and 1.0
3. Do you have any plans at all for anything after version 1.0
4. Ok, there is something you called plugins, plugins can be considered different things, what do you mean, do you mean being able to hook it to other third party applications, or something else. If you mean something else, then what does it have to do with.
5. IF the plugins end up being for various components of the same program, are we still gogin to be able to download the entire activecollab program with the plugins and all, or are the plugs all something we have to get seperately, or am I thinking about plugins the wrong way?
6. If I just created a few other custom applications, and simply put one link on the administration page, where all the links are, just add a link to my other application then
a. Is that going to be something that would ever be overwritten in newer versions, or would it be easy to keep adding it back in here.
b. What do I need to do, to make sure I am the only one who can see it. I am a programmer, have been for a long time now, and I was just wondering, because this is a huge system, I don't want to mess something up. Especially when the owner is always here to ask.
7. Now for some more of personal advice.
a. I can't decide what to base my career around. I want to say 100% custom programming, and 90% of the time I do everything custom from the ground up. But when it comes to forum's I always end up using simple machines(smf), if it's a shopping cart, so far it's been third party, but no-one so far needed a e-commerce site, and chances are if they had a fair deadline, and good budget, I would build those from scratch. I am trying to decide is a project management system any harder to build than a full e-commerce system.
b. I want to still say 100% custom programming, is it still custom programming if it's a third party app that still matches there needs, like something big, I can still do custom programming to make it what they need.
c. What do you base it off of, iilja don't remember your name right off, have you ever used third party apps, I just can't decide. I want to do everything custom I can, but if I swear 100% custom programming, meaning never third party, then I will end up having triple development time for things like forum's and stuff like that. I really wanted to program my own project management system but I don't think I would ever be able too. Any advice.
8. What directions are this software going to go, I mean is it always going to be open source. What other features are you putting in, someone said you shouldn't keep going in and putting in features, but setup to allow people to have there own features, what do you mean, I am confused about that specific part. Does that mean there's a time when you won't be adding in new features over and over again, and instead you will decide to allow users to create there own module's with no set version releases. I am confused, just looking to try and hear some input on everything, so I can help solidy my delima in either created one from scratch or sticking to this one?
I wanted to ask a few questions about further releases of active collab to decide if I should still with it, or custom build one, if someone could answer these questions I Would greatly appreciate it.
1. I now have version 0.7, are you going to be developing on this permanently. Meaning is it something you are going to constantly be developing on, from now, until a specific time, or permanently.
2. When is the release date idea for version 0.8, and 0.9, and 1.0
3. Do you have any plans at all for anything after version 1.0
4. Ok, there is something you called plugins, plugins can be considered different things, what do you mean, do you mean being able to hook it to other third party applications, or something else. If you mean something else, then what does it have to do with.
5. IF the plugins end up being for various components of the same program, are we still gogin to be able to download the entire activecollab program with the plugins and all, or are the plugs all something we have to get seperately, or am I thinking about plugins the wrong way?
6. If I just created a few other custom applications, and simply put one link on the administration page, where all the links are, just add a link to my other application then
a. Is that going to be something that would ever be overwritten in newer versions, or would it be easy to keep adding it back in here.
b. What do I need to do, to make sure I am the only one who can see it. I am a programmer, have been for a long time now, and I was just wondering, because this is a huge system, I don't want to mess something up. Especially when the owner is always here to ask.
7. Now for some more of personal advice.
a. I can't decide what to base my career around. I want to say 100% custom programming, and 90% of the time I do everything custom from the ground up. But when it comes to forum's I always end up using simple machines(smf), if it's a shopping cart, so far it's been third party, but no-one so far needed a e-commerce site, and chances are if they had a fair deadline, and good budget, I would build those from scratch. I am trying to decide is a project management system any harder to build than a full e-commerce system.
b. I want to still say 100% custom programming, is it still custom programming if it's a third party app that still matches there needs, like something big, I can still do custom programming to make it what they need.
c. What do you base it off of, iilja don't remember your name right off, have you ever used third party apps, I just can't decide. I want to do everything custom I can, but if I swear 100% custom programming, meaning never third party, then I will end up having triple development time for things like forum's and stuff like that. I really wanted to program my own project management system but I don't think I would ever be able too. Any advice.
8. What directions are this software going to go, I mean is it always going to be open source. What other features are you putting in, someone said you shouldn't keep going in and putting in features, but setup to allow people to have there own features, what do you mean, I am confused about that specific part. Does that mean there's a time when you won't be adding in new features over and over again, and instead you will decide to allow users to create there own module's with no set version releases. I am confused, just looking to try and hear some input on everything, so I can help solidy my delima in either created one from scratch or sticking to this one?
Pro
Most of these questions are addressed in the blog posts and under 'development', esp the roadmap.
Staff
Ilija Studen
on Oct 7. 2006. 5:37 pm
Uh, there is a lot of questions there... I will not answer to all of them (its a time issue ;) ).
I'm a strong believer that feature count and adding new features should not drive a development of specific peace of software. Its about finding good balance between a complexity and provided functionality. Solution that is so complex that is hard to use is useless as is solution that is so simple that actually don't fit in any workflow.
Firefox is a great example. Its a great browser, but nothing more when you install it. You install additional extensions if you need something specific that is not required by most of the users. We'll try to move activeCollab development in that way - plain and simple installation that is simple and easy to use. If you need more, create a plugin or use existing one.
There is some point in development of any product when almost all critical (big) features are in place. In that situation development is moved from constant feature additions to fine tuning existing features and interface, refactoring code to be more efficient and easier to maintain etc. Commercial software always needs to move forward to get people pay for new stuff, but in case of open source project you can actually enjoy in feature complete state where you just try to drive current set of features to perfection.
It does not mean that project is dead, it means that its mature.
So, development will be continued as long as users are interested in activeCollab. At some point official installation will have all big features required by user. At that stage we'll concentrate not on adding new stuff, but on improving interface, refactoring existing code and providing plugins.
Actually, future is unclear, but that is current idea. This project is not about feature count. Its about balanced solution that is light and easy to use by default, but at the same time flexible enough to be extend to fit specific needs of users.
I'm a strong believer that feature count and adding new features should not drive a development of specific peace of software. Its about finding good balance between a complexity and provided functionality. Solution that is so complex that is hard to use is useless as is solution that is so simple that actually don't fit in any workflow.
Firefox is a great example. Its a great browser, but nothing more when you install it. You install additional extensions if you need something specific that is not required by most of the users. We'll try to move activeCollab development in that way - plain and simple installation that is simple and easy to use. If you need more, create a plugin or use existing one.
There is some point in development of any product when almost all critical (big) features are in place. In that situation development is moved from constant feature additions to fine tuning existing features and interface, refactoring code to be more efficient and easier to maintain etc. Commercial software always needs to move forward to get people pay for new stuff, but in case of open source project you can actually enjoy in feature complete state where you just try to drive current set of features to perfection.
It does not mean that project is dead, it means that its mature.
So, development will be continued as long as users are interested in activeCollab. At some point official installation will have all big features required by user. At that stage we'll concentrate not on adding new stuff, but on improving interface, refactoring existing code and providing plugins.
Actually, future is unclear, but that is current idea. This project is not about feature count. Its about balanced solution that is light and easy to use by default, but at the same time flexible enough to be extend to fit specific needs of users.
activeCollab Team Member
It should be kept in mind that often people who use this software almost 'draft' other users into using it by setting up projects with user accounts which then automatically sends emails to people asking them to login and start working on a project.
I did this to one person (an engineer) who emailed me back saying what should they do with this 'website'. I said to leave it alone until I create a small tutorial on how to use it.
There are many, many people that know how to
1) send/read email and
2) use a browser
and using AC should be no more complex that this (in my opinion).
I did this to one person (an engineer) who emailed me back saying what should they do with this 'website'. I said to leave it alone until I create a small tutorial on how to use it.
There are many, many people that know how to
1) send/read email and
2) use a browser
and using AC should be no more complex that this (in my opinion).
businessman
on Oct 8. 2006. 3:41 am
That one sentence is what is confusing me, I know what a plugin is, I have been in web development for quite a bit of time, but what do you mean by
create a plugin or use existing one.
related to active collab. Do you mean hooking it up to other third party apps, what are the plugins going to be for, you mean like oscommerce where people contribute tons of addins, and plugins let people interface with those, what "exactly" does plugin mean in relation to active collab, I think that is the part that is starting to confuse me.
create a plugin or use existing one.
related to active collab. Do you mean hooking it up to other third party apps, what are the plugins going to be for, you mean like oscommerce where people contribute tons of addins, and plugins let people interface with those, what "exactly" does plugin mean in relation to active collab, I think that is the part that is starting to confuse me.
Pro
The plugin API has yet to even be developed, the ground work for which will come in 0.7.5 and 0.8... my understanding is the plugin API will be just that, an API, or way to access aC features to 'add-on' to aC. It could mean a link to 3rd party apps, new functionality, user tweaks, you name it.
Ilija's point is that in the future you will be able to create a plugin or use one that someone else would have written to add the functionality you've described in your numerous posts. However aC's direction is currently to be lean and mean, similar to firefox, simple to use and install.. and if you want to add things to it you can download and add new plugins, similar (keeping the comparision) to firefox's extensions. In that FF doesn't come with all the extensions but rather allows those that want the functionality to easily code it, and for others to implement it.
m@
EDIT: Grammatical Errors, lots of them.
Ilija's point is that in the future you will be able to create a plugin or use one that someone else would have written to add the functionality you've described in your numerous posts. However aC's direction is currently to be lean and mean, similar to firefox, simple to use and install.. and if you want to add things to it you can download and add new plugins, similar (keeping the comparision) to firefox's extensions. In that FF doesn't come with all the extensions but rather allows those that want the functionality to easily code it, and for others to implement it.
m@
EDIT: Grammatical Errors, lots of them.
Staff
Ilija Studen
on Oct 8. 2006. 11:16 am
Plugins are mini applications that hook into the system and use its resources to do something. Good example would be bug tracker plugin:
* It is used per project to track bugs and other open issues
* Issues can be assigned to existing users (resource provided by the system)
* Issues can have due date (resource provided by the system)
* Issues can have notifications (resource provided by the system)
* Isseus can have comments (resource provided by the system)
* Issues can have attachments (resource provided by the system)
When you take a look at it like that you'll see that plugin developer needs just to do specific stuff and pull all of available resources together to work on the problem he is trying to solve.
Now, thats just one aspect of plugins. Plugins can be used to integrate with other services or applications, to provide additional tools for existing features (for instance, someone can come and write a plugin that lets user post one task in multiple projects at once).
If dope right, options are limitless ;)
Btw, I haven't actually figured out all the details and how deep plugins will be able to go (PHP is not Ruby or JavaScript so you can't override something that is already defined), will there be global event system etc. Open for suggestions :D
* It is used per project to track bugs and other open issues
* Issues can be assigned to existing users (resource provided by the system)
* Issues can have due date (resource provided by the system)
* Issues can have notifications (resource provided by the system)
* Isseus can have comments (resource provided by the system)
* Issues can have attachments (resource provided by the system)
When you take a look at it like that you'll see that plugin developer needs just to do specific stuff and pull all of available resources together to work on the problem he is trying to solve.
Now, thats just one aspect of plugins. Plugins can be used to integrate with other services or applications, to provide additional tools for existing features (for instance, someone can come and write a plugin that lets user post one task in multiple projects at once).
If dope right, options are limitless ;)
Btw, I haven't actually figured out all the details and how deep plugins will be able to go (PHP is not Ruby or JavaScript so you can't override something that is already defined), will there be global event system etc. Open for suggestions :D
activeCollab Team Member
businessman
on Oct 8. 2006. 12:24 pm
The thing I was wondering though is are the plugins, everything related to active collab, is there a way to use all the plugins at once I always liked trying to use the total package, so Iwould try to get everything that came with the program, will it work that way.
Staff
Ilija Studen
on Oct 8. 2006. 12:41 pm
Only system plugins (basically, what you see now + time tracking and better issue management) will be shipped in the package.
All additional package you'll need to download and install.
All additional package you'll need to download and install.
activeCollab Team Member
businessman
on Oct 8. 2006. 3:10 pm
will they all be downloadable from your site, other third parties or users.
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