Mixed Impressions, The
Page: 1
Recent posts in this topic
flashlackey
on Oct 14. 2007. 8:27 am
First, let me say thank you for creating a product that is of a quality that only hard work and caring development can yield. This really is a top-of-the-line, highly competitive option for many businesses. That said, I must say that there are some issues that have really been unsettling to me as a customer and I would like to voice my impressions. My approach is to put things in no uncertain terms. I hope it can be appreciated that my intention is only to be constructive here.
There are a number of issues that I would measure, as a commercial software developer and business owner, to be severe problems:
I. THE "LAUNCH"
The most glaring issue I believe you guys need to resolve is this business of taking peoples money but also saying the launch has not officially happened. You can say it is not official until you are blue in the face. But, the moment you start taking payments, you are entering an obligation to customers. Whatever information those customers have at the time of purchase is what you are obligated to live up to. Otherwise, what you are really saying is:
"We will take your money. But, we warned you not to give it to us yet."
I believe that you should immediately take accountability for the product you are already getting paid for and post whatever "official" announcement you can with a frank explanation of what existing customers and new ones can expect. You should also offer the option for anyone who bought the product before the "official" announcement to recieve a refund if they later learn that the product doesn't contain the features they expected. Even if the announcement doesn't contain everything you wanted it to, it would be far better to have something there than to let this situation linger any longer. It gives the feeling that those who bought early are suckers who are paying to be beta testers and don't really know what they actually purchased. Maybe that's what they really are (me included). But, do you really want to let them be that as their service provider?
II. COMMERCIAL != OPEN-SOURCE
Various questions, requests, etc. have been raised in these forums about features that have been discussed in the past. I believe that you guys need to take note of the significant differences between communication with a commercial company and an open-source project team. Once customers are paying you for a product, it is no longer enough to respond with "we'll see what we can do", "if you really need it", etc. as is custom on open-source projects. In open-source, nobody has any right to ask you to meet any expections. But, in a commercial context, customers need a clear, definitive explanation of what they are buying so that they can judge for themselves what is and is not valuable.
You should post, as soon as possible, a more detailed description of all features. This description should be able to be cross-checked against and clarify any past understandings of what would be in the product being sold. If nothing else, you should post a disclaimer of some kind that clarifies that no implications made in the forums are gauranteed to be in the current product.
As it is, features like time-tracking are something short of the way that they were left described in the forums. You shouldn't start taking payments for that impression unless you have clarified what IS in the product. "We'll think about adding it if you ask us a lot" is not an appropriate commercial response, imo.
III. SELLING ONLY WHAT YOU CAN DELIVER
I had a support problem that took longer than expected to resolve. I have tried to be patient in consideration of this being a newly launched product. However, I realized too that this really is about managing expectations. It only took longer than I expected because the license agreement including a "year free support" built that expectation.
I know that you see support as a way to maintain continued revenue for your work. But, maybe you aren't really equipped to deliver that part of the deal at this time and should focus on product development for now. Instead of offering support for the first year free, why not just leave support out of the sale entirely. You could still offer support in the meantime. It would just then be on your own, realistic terms. Then people won't be in a position to feel let down if things don't happen as fast as they expect. Instead of dedicating a bunch of time to constant support you feel contractually obligated to meet, you could look at building support FAQ's and other troubleshooting guides that would minimize that work load until you are in a position to offer 24 hour, dedicated support and charge for it.
Really, I don't think I am alone in my preference that you have everyone on the team focused 99% on bug fixes and upgrades rather than trying to individually troubleshoot the same server problems that 20 different people have.
IV. CONCLUSION
Again, thank you for the great product. It is inevitable that a transition like this is going to require some steering and adjustments as you work things out. I understand that. I hope that my impressions, as a customer rather than some open-source commentor, will hold some weight and be helpful.
At the end of the day, I think that all of my concerns are resolved by more clear communication. Your level of communication has actually been very diligent in responding to all posts, questions, etc. I just believe that the product related matters need to become more focused and concise now that expectations are tied to dollars.
Thank you for bearing my 10 or 15 cents. :)
There are a number of issues that I would measure, as a commercial software developer and business owner, to be severe problems:
I. THE "LAUNCH"
The most glaring issue I believe you guys need to resolve is this business of taking peoples money but also saying the launch has not officially happened. You can say it is not official until you are blue in the face. But, the moment you start taking payments, you are entering an obligation to customers. Whatever information those customers have at the time of purchase is what you are obligated to live up to. Otherwise, what you are really saying is:
"We will take your money. But, we warned you not to give it to us yet."
I believe that you should immediately take accountability for the product you are already getting paid for and post whatever "official" announcement you can with a frank explanation of what existing customers and new ones can expect. You should also offer the option for anyone who bought the product before the "official" announcement to recieve a refund if they later learn that the product doesn't contain the features they expected. Even if the announcement doesn't contain everything you wanted it to, it would be far better to have something there than to let this situation linger any longer. It gives the feeling that those who bought early are suckers who are paying to be beta testers and don't really know what they actually purchased. Maybe that's what they really are (me included). But, do you really want to let them be that as their service provider?
II. COMMERCIAL != OPEN-SOURCE
Various questions, requests, etc. have been raised in these forums about features that have been discussed in the past. I believe that you guys need to take note of the significant differences between communication with a commercial company and an open-source project team. Once customers are paying you for a product, it is no longer enough to respond with "we'll see what we can do", "if you really need it", etc. as is custom on open-source projects. In open-source, nobody has any right to ask you to meet any expections. But, in a commercial context, customers need a clear, definitive explanation of what they are buying so that they can judge for themselves what is and is not valuable.
You should post, as soon as possible, a more detailed description of all features. This description should be able to be cross-checked against and clarify any past understandings of what would be in the product being sold. If nothing else, you should post a disclaimer of some kind that clarifies that no implications made in the forums are gauranteed to be in the current product.
As it is, features like time-tracking are something short of the way that they were left described in the forums. You shouldn't start taking payments for that impression unless you have clarified what IS in the product. "We'll think about adding it if you ask us a lot" is not an appropriate commercial response, imo.
III. SELLING ONLY WHAT YOU CAN DELIVER
I had a support problem that took longer than expected to resolve. I have tried to be patient in consideration of this being a newly launched product. However, I realized too that this really is about managing expectations. It only took longer than I expected because the license agreement including a "year free support" built that expectation.
I know that you see support as a way to maintain continued revenue for your work. But, maybe you aren't really equipped to deliver that part of the deal at this time and should focus on product development for now. Instead of offering support for the first year free, why not just leave support out of the sale entirely. You could still offer support in the meantime. It would just then be on your own, realistic terms. Then people won't be in a position to feel let down if things don't happen as fast as they expect. Instead of dedicating a bunch of time to constant support you feel contractually obligated to meet, you could look at building support FAQ's and other troubleshooting guides that would minimize that work load until you are in a position to offer 24 hour, dedicated support and charge for it.
Really, I don't think I am alone in my preference that you have everyone on the team focused 99% on bug fixes and upgrades rather than trying to individually troubleshoot the same server problems that 20 different people have.
IV. CONCLUSION
Again, thank you for the great product. It is inevitable that a transition like this is going to require some steering and adjustments as you work things out. I understand that. I hope that my impressions, as a customer rather than some open-source commentor, will hold some weight and be helpful.
At the end of the day, I think that all of my concerns are resolved by more clear communication. Your level of communication has actually been very diligent in responding to all posts, questions, etc. I just believe that the product related matters need to become more focused and concise now that expectations are tied to dollars.
Thank you for bearing my 10 or 15 cents. :)
About point 2, you are completely and utterly WRONG. It is absurd to expect that a software vendor will implement every feature suggestion submitted to them. That is absurd. They have responded in exactly the right way. Look at 37 signals, for example. There are times when a large number of their customers appear (due dates for todos in basecamp, fore example) and they unequivocally say "no." That is their right. If you don't like it, DON'T BUY THE FREAKIN' PRODUCT.
They gave you a clear, definitive explanation of what you are buying. If you don't like what it is, don't buy it. You should always buy a product based on what it is, not on what you think it will become, unless you're going to make it happen yourself. That's just absurdly ridiculous.
Anyway, I will not comment on the rest.
Once customers are paying you for a product, it is no longer enough to respond with "we'll see what we can do", "if you really need it", etc. as is custom on open-source projects. In open-source, nobody has any right to ask you to meet any expections. But, in a commercial context, customers need a clear, definitive explanation of what they are buying so that they can judge for themselves what is and is not valuable.
They gave you a clear, definitive explanation of what you are buying. If you don't like what it is, don't buy it. You should always buy a product based on what it is, not on what you think it will become, unless you're going to make it happen yourself. That's just absurdly ridiculous.
Anyway, I will not comment on the rest.
flashlackey
on Oct 14. 2007. 8:37 pm
About point 2, YOU are completely and utterly WRONG. I was not saying that they have to implement every feature suggestion submitted to them. Re-reading what I said should help you out there. It's kind of humorous to read what you quoted from me and clearly see that I was not saying what you thought I was. :)
What I am saying is that they should implement the features THEY said they were going to include IN THE WAY that THEY have last said THEY were going to. There has been no follow up clarifications that would negate where they last left these features. It is not enough to make money on a false pretense and then later say that they might live up to that pretense if a lot of people ask them to.
They did not give a clear explanation of what you are buying. There is a compare list that simply says "time-tracking" and a number of other general items. However, this product has been discussed for months during development with direct responses from them. They have responded to feature requests positively or negatively. It is not unreasonable to assume that, when they respond to a request by saying it is a good idea and will be implemented that when they later refer to that feature generally, it will be built in that way.
As far as knowing what you are buying, you are right. It was a foolish decision to buy this without further detail and clarification. However, aC is in a position to make those that did either fools or trusting customers. I am simply pointing these things out. It is their perogative to handle it any way they want.
No hard feelings.
What I am saying is that they should implement the features THEY said they were going to include IN THE WAY that THEY have last said THEY were going to. There has been no follow up clarifications that would negate where they last left these features. It is not enough to make money on a false pretense and then later say that they might live up to that pretense if a lot of people ask them to.
They did not give a clear explanation of what you are buying. There is a compare list that simply says "time-tracking" and a number of other general items. However, this product has been discussed for months during development with direct responses from them. They have responded to feature requests positively or negatively. It is not unreasonable to assume that, when they respond to a request by saying it is a good idea and will be implemented that when they later refer to that feature generally, it will be built in that way.
As far as knowing what you are buying, you are right. It was a foolish decision to buy this without further detail and clarification. However, aC is in a position to make those that did either fools or trusting customers. I am simply pointing these things out. It is their perogative to handle it any way they want.
No hard feelings.
flashlackey
on Oct 14. 2007. 8:57 pm
The whole situation could have been kept clear had they posted something like this:
We have discussed a lot of features in the past here. But, we had to make decisions to meet our goals and in some cases improve the product. Some of the features we have previously discussed did not make it into this build as previously thought. Here is what is in there: xyz. Here is what didn't make it: xyz. Here is what we plan to add soon: xyz.
That should have been the clear message present BEFORE collecting payments from people, "official launch" or not.
We have discussed a lot of features in the past here. But, we had to make decisions to meet our goals and in some cases improve the product. Some of the features we have previously discussed did not make it into this build as previously thought. Here is what is in there: xyz. Here is what didn't make it: xyz. Here is what we plan to add soon: xyz.
That should have been the clear message present BEFORE collecting payments from people, "official launch" or not.
Ilija Studen
on Oct 14. 2007. 9:17 pm
Hi, hi,
Sorry for the late reply. I figured it would be much better to work on the problems instead of just talking about them so we spent the whole day working. A new release that includes fixes to known bugs is nearly finished, one more option for trying out activeCollab will be introduce soon, activeCollab 0.7.1 importer is ready, we will introduce 30 days money back guaranty etc. Not everything can be fixed in 10 days, but all those little things really add up in the long run.
Sorry for the late reply. I figured it would be much better to work on the problems instead of just talking about them so we spent the whole day working. A new release that includes fixes to known bugs is nearly finished, one more option for trying out activeCollab will be introduce soon, activeCollab 0.7.1 importer is ready, we will introduce 30 days money back guaranty etc. Not everything can be fixed in 10 days, but all those little things really add up in the long run.
activeCollab team member | LinkedIn
flashlackey
on Oct 14. 2007. 11:46 pm
Ilija,
Thanks for the update.
Sounds like this release will pretty much address every point I had made. Makes me feel a lot better about it to hear.
Thanks for the update.
Sounds like this release will pretty much address every point I had made. Makes me feel a lot better about it to hear.
Ilija Studen:A new release that includes fixes to known bugs is nearly finished
Ilija, any idea when this update will be available? I'd like to wait until it comes out before my company purchases.
