Recent posts in this topic
Ilija Studen:
There is four of us in A51 (that is the name of our company) and we have 4 active projects at this moment. While I understand that some of you need more project there is no way that you can persuade me that all of you have more than 35 active project.
To see how many project you really need follow these simple steps:
1. How many projects you currently have in your activeCollab setup (if you have one)? Any other tool?
2. How many you can archive right now?
3. How many of them can be merged because they cover the same issue? For example, we are working on activeCollab documentation, but it part of activeCollab project, not a separate one.
Illija, I think you're missing a major point here...
The number of active projects is completely dependent on how you have implemented the application in your organization. One of the most beautiful things about aC is how flexible it is in handling a huge variety of task-oriented processes, not just projects.
Here's a real-world example I have used and seen used in more than one location: Company A runs a typical service business. They have a number of clients, and each client has a number of different projects. Some projects are active, some are on hold, etc...some are MAINTENANCE projects. This means that the client has ongoing needs that may relate to a project, but are not planned. In addition to the client projects, there are several internal projects that are being worked on. Things that are part of the business, or relate to a specific department. Each department may have a single ongoing maintenance project, as well as other more typical projects.
The point is that, even in a very small business, you can quickly create and maintain more than just a few projects. This may be addressed by such features as Tickets, but without any way to test the feature, it's hard for those of who have been using the application for a long time to understand/accept this drastic change in pricing.
Illja is the current pricing and limitations permanent or will it be taken in consideration to change them?
Illja,
i'm also kinda shocked about the pricing. It's not that i am not willing to pay for good software and i also see the need of a recurring pricing structure for updates and something. The recurring nature of yearly payments makes it much more calculatable for your company. That's great as it is.
But i can't really believe this pricing structure is what you think will attract your main targeted people. Let's see:
- Big enterprise companies -> big internal software solutions mostly not web based
- Big web agencies -> mostly self developed solutions or paid desktop software
Your main market will bee freelancers, small one-man-shows with couple of own web projects and couple of customers. I can't understand why you argue not to believe such a small company having 30-40 active projects. isn't there any other pricing method than based on active project?
What's the different for your costs if you have 1000 customers with 50 projects each or 1000 customers with 5 projects each? I don't know any really big and successful web application that is self hosted and based on such values. Example: vBulletin ist most likely one of the if not the best bboard-software around. one of it's main advantages besides quality code and a rapid improvement is it's clear and tough pricing structure. It's not really cheap but it's not too expensive for even smaller, private communties to get in. They don't build prices based on the size of their customers communities - why should they? it doesn't change anything for them whether my forums have 200 users or 20.000.
Your applying a hosted-solution-pricing structure to a self hosted software. Make a straight valuable price without limits and you'll receivce so much more customers and they don't even have to calculate that much.
With this structure aC is definitely a no go for me and for many others sitting on basecamp waiting for the next best thing.
i'm also kinda shocked about the pricing. It's not that i am not willing to pay for good software and i also see the need of a recurring pricing structure for updates and something. The recurring nature of yearly payments makes it much more calculatable for your company. That's great as it is.
But i can't really believe this pricing structure is what you think will attract your main targeted people. Let's see:
- Big enterprise companies -> big internal software solutions mostly not web based
- Big web agencies -> mostly self developed solutions or paid desktop software
Your main market will bee freelancers, small one-man-shows with couple of own web projects and couple of customers. I can't understand why you argue not to believe such a small company having 30-40 active projects. isn't there any other pricing method than based on active project?
What's the different for your costs if you have 1000 customers with 50 projects each or 1000 customers with 5 projects each? I don't know any really big and successful web application that is self hosted and based on such values. Example: vBulletin ist most likely one of the if not the best bboard-software around. one of it's main advantages besides quality code and a rapid improvement is it's clear and tough pricing structure. It's not really cheap but it's not too expensive for even smaller, private communties to get in. They don't build prices based on the size of their customers communities - why should they? it doesn't change anything for them whether my forums have 200 users or 20.000.
Your applying a hosted-solution-pricing structure to a self hosted software. Make a straight valuable price without limits and you'll receivce so much more customers and they don't even have to calculate that much.
With this structure aC is definitely a no go for me and for many others sitting on basecamp waiting for the next best thing.
Helmi:Your applying a hosted-solution-pricing structure to a self hosted software. Make a straight valuable price without limits and you'll receivce so much more customers and they don't even have to calculate that much.
With this structure aC is definitely a no go for me and for many others sitting on basecamp waiting for the next best thing.
My concern exactly. One of the main draws of AC was that, unlike hosted solutions, there were no arbitrary limits. The only constraints were the hardware I was running it on. With 1.0, I no longer see the point of hosting the software myself if it's going to suddenly adopt the limitations of hosted solutions for no reason.
Ilja, I wish you well in pursuing the enterprise market. You obviously have a talented team, and while I'm certainly disappointed that AC's licensing setup didn't meet my needs, I hope you guys do end up finding your niche.
Guys, I think llija gets the picture.
Fact of the matter, the rule of the market is this: you create a product, you place a value on the product and then you try to sell the product... People will either buy it or not buy it. If they buy it, great, then you are making some money for your efforts. If they don't, then your time and effort was wasted, and you still aren't making any money. That kinda sucks.
It's pretty obvious that the prices are unrealistic, and the rule of the market will dictate that outcome.
IIija, you've built a pretty solid user base, but I would be careful... it is your user base to lose.
I have a small web design/development company. I think that we do very good work, at least our customers seem to indicate so. But if I over price them, I don't think I can blame them for going else where... guess that's just the way it is I suppose...
Fact of the matter, the rule of the market is this: you create a product, you place a value on the product and then you try to sell the product... People will either buy it or not buy it. If they buy it, great, then you are making some money for your efforts. If they don't, then your time and effort was wasted, and you still aren't making any money. That kinda sucks.
It's pretty obvious that the prices are unrealistic, and the rule of the market will dictate that outcome.
IIija, you've built a pretty solid user base, but I would be careful... it is your user base to lose.
I have a small web design/development company. I think that we do very good work, at least our customers seem to indicate so. But if I over price them, I don't think I can blame them for going else where... guess that's just the way it is I suppose...
flashlackey
on Sep 18. 2007. 11:51 pm
I fiercely defended AC's right to charge for their product. I continue to stand by that position.
However, I too am suprised by the pricing. AC has every right to charge whatever they want. If it works for them at that price, more power to them. Just, on a business strategy level it seems high. Laughably high, actually. :)
Something to consider is that, if a few licenses are sold now but it is later determined that a substantial reduction will improve profit, the people who paid the original steep price are going to be pissed off and want a refund.
Just my 10 cents. I'm not going to buy unless it goes way down. But, good luck anyway!
However, I too am suprised by the pricing. AC has every right to charge whatever they want. If it works for them at that price, more power to them. Just, on a business strategy level it seems high. Laughably high, actually. :)
Something to consider is that, if a few licenses are sold now but it is later determined that a substantial reduction will improve profit, the people who paid the original steep price are going to be pissed off and want a refund.
Just my 10 cents. I'm not going to buy unless it goes way down. But, good luck anyway!
AC,
There's a super easy solution here. Continue to offer v 0.7 for free. Freeze the dev tree. People can pay for support as-needed or use the forums.
Charge whatever (friggin insane!) prices you want for your >= v 1 versions.
This way we can all stay with what we already have and don't have to bitch & moan about the new prices, and you can learn for yourself (and boy have you got a lot to learn!) if the market feels your product is priced competitively.
Done.
There's a super easy solution here. Continue to offer v 0.7 for free. Freeze the dev tree. People can pay for support as-needed or use the forums.
Charge whatever (friggin insane!) prices you want for your >= v 1 versions.
This way we can all stay with what we already have and don't have to bitch & moan about the new prices, and you can learn for yourself (and boy have you got a lot to learn!) if the market feels your product is priced competitively.
Done.
flashlackey:I fiercely defended AC's right to charge for their product. I continue to stand by that position.
I don't argue this point at all...they absolutely have the right to charge for their product. But if they OVER charge, the market will naturally
take care of this...
Doesn't look like many people are biting into these new prices. And this is the feedback that they wanted...
flashlackey
on Sep 19. 2007. 1:53 am
Sorry if it seemed like I was disagreeing with you, jive. It seems that we are on the same page.
I've been developing and selling software for years now. I could be wrong. But, according to my observations, it is way over-priced. I'll give my 25 cent explanation if anyone at AC is interested...? :)
I've been developing and selling software for years now. I could be wrong. But, according to my observations, it is way over-priced. I'll give my 25 cent explanation if anyone at AC is interested...? :)
flashlackey:Sorry if it seemed like I was disagreeing with you, jive. It seems that we are on the same page.
I've been developing and selling software for years now. I could be wrong. But, according to my observations, it is way over-priced. I'll give my 25 cent explanation if anyone at AC is interested...? :)
How could it be that folks so sharp at developing such great software could turn around and be so clueless on pricing models?
(oh, wait, let me search through my 30 years of tech industry software startups to answer that...)
EGO. A giant one.
AC thinks it's the sh*t and is pricing accordingly. Shall we start a deadpool on how long they will last at this crazed pricing? If they are still nutty enough to actually release the product under these rates, I give them absolutely not an hour more than 60 days before they pull their tail between their legs and drop prices "like a chart".
But by then, they will have already killed the goodwill of the community.
Watch out AC! It's non-trivial to go from free to fee in this GPL/OSS world!
