Recent posts in this topic
andrewCharron
on Feb 19. 2008. 3:39 pm
Why not make a checklist in the milestone and have all your tasks in that checklist? Just have one checklist.
Ilija Studen
on Feb 19. 2008. 3:42 pm
Brian:The truth is that the Small Biz edition of this product is pretty worthless without the Tickets support. That's because Tickets really means Tasks!!
Sorry, but that is not true because you are completely ignoring checklists and suggesting that Tickets are the only way to go.
Checklists are also high level "tasks". Tickets include a bit more functionality (comment, attachments, history) for people who need more firepower, but both tickets and checklists share the same foundation - summary, full description, completion status, subtasks.
If you really think that activeCollab is not worth the money you spent we will gladly give it back to you. We really are not trying to trick, fool or lock in anyone. If you feel otherwise please let us know - just send an email to support@a51dev.com and ask for a refund. We'll have everything handled in a matter of hours.
activeCollab team member
I'm sorry to argue but that is indeed true...
Checklists cannot be used as high level tasks as you suggest because you can't assign them to anyone and you can't assign a deadline date. So that doesn't work. What's more, you never see them in the context of the Milestones.
With Andrew's suggestion (thanks Andrew...) of doing the whole project in one Checklist, well you then have a very expensive one-level task list manager with no tie in to milestones.
The reason Tickets works is because it shows the tasks relative to the Milestones on the Tickets tab. And IMHO you don't have a project managment system without that. Look at PHPCollab, Webcollab, dotProject, Celoxis, etc., they all have that structure.
So yes, I don't think the Small Biz edition of aC is worth the money. I don't think it needs the "firepower" items (comments, etc.) but you've really "neutered" it by not giving it any of the Tickets function. The real question I have to ponder is, is the $400 edition worth the money. If I was a large shop, probably. But I'm not, so I'm not sure...
In the meantime, I really think you should explain what Tickets are all about on the features page of your website so that others are not confused like I was.
Thanks for all of your responses. Sorry to be "cranky" but I do appreciate that you are engaging with me.
Checklists cannot be used as high level tasks as you suggest because you can't assign them to anyone and you can't assign a deadline date. So that doesn't work. What's more, you never see them in the context of the Milestones.
With Andrew's suggestion (thanks Andrew...) of doing the whole project in one Checklist, well you then have a very expensive one-level task list manager with no tie in to milestones.
The reason Tickets works is because it shows the tasks relative to the Milestones on the Tickets tab. And IMHO you don't have a project managment system without that. Look at PHPCollab, Webcollab, dotProject, Celoxis, etc., they all have that structure.
So yes, I don't think the Small Biz edition of aC is worth the money. I don't think it needs the "firepower" items (comments, etc.) but you've really "neutered" it by not giving it any of the Tickets function. The real question I have to ponder is, is the $400 edition worth the money. If I was a large shop, probably. But I'm not, so I'm not sure...
In the meantime, I really think you should explain what Tickets are all about on the features page of your website so that others are not confused like I was.
Thanks for all of your responses. Sorry to be "cranky" but I do appreciate that you are engaging with me.
Sebastian Tänzer
on Feb 20. 2008. 3:55 pm
Brian, I have to jump in here. First of all, the idea of renaming tickets to tasks is not a bad idea. I really had trouble with understanding tickets in the beginning, too and I think the current advertisement of aC is misleading, too.
But I don't think you're right when you when say aC isn't worth the $400. On the other hand I think the "ac Lite" is useless for most companies (!), too. I've spent some weeks with aC and wasn't that happy with some of the features in the beginning. 4 weeks later I'm really looking forward to 1.1 - with project templates aC is going to rock.
But come on, $400 shouldn't be a problem for a company if aC is going to be used for professional project management for projects you're earning money with. Have you looked at different project management suites that aim to do the same as aC? Most of them are way more expensive and don't even come close.
I really love working with aC and if I compare it to other online project management tools there are a lot of reasons why I think the $400 is a good investment. The best is: the data is yours, no hosted solution. And no monthly fees.
In the end it all comes down to a better product presentation of aC on the website.
But I don't think you're right when you when say aC isn't worth the $400. On the other hand I think the "ac Lite" is useless for most companies (!), too. I've spent some weeks with aC and wasn't that happy with some of the features in the beginning. 4 weeks later I'm really looking forward to 1.1 - with project templates aC is going to rock.
But come on, $400 shouldn't be a problem for a company if aC is going to be used for professional project management for projects you're earning money with. Have you looked at different project management suites that aim to do the same as aC? Most of them are way more expensive and don't even come close.
I really love working with aC and if I compare it to other online project management tools there are a lot of reasons why I think the $400 is a good investment. The best is: the data is yours, no hosted solution. And no monthly fees.
In the end it all comes down to a better product presentation of aC on the website.
andrewCharron
on Feb 22. 2008. 7:58 am
Something everyone needs to remember is that not everyone uses aC the same. Something which you may have a dire need for, everyone else may not want or need, and thusmay not be as needed as you think.
For example, I have no use for tickets, yet we currently use the corp version. The way we have it set up is that milestones are set as milestones and assigned to project leader. Easch milestones have parts that need to be finished, and thus checklists. In all reality, we dont need a checklist to be assigned to anyone (Although it might be useful). Inside the checklists are tasks that need to be finished in order to complete the checklist, and each is assigned to whoever is responsable.
However, we can see this from the other side as well. Ilija may need to realize that not everyone can use the software the way it is written, and some features that he doesnt know about may be in desperate need of being added.
For example, I have no use for tickets, yet we currently use the corp version. The way we have it set up is that milestones are set as milestones and assigned to project leader. Easch milestones have parts that need to be finished, and thus checklists. In all reality, we dont need a checklist to be assigned to anyone (Although it might be useful). Inside the checklists are tasks that need to be finished in order to complete the checklist, and each is assigned to whoever is responsable.
However, we can see this from the other side as well. Ilija may need to realize that not everyone can use the software the way it is written, and some features that he doesnt know about may be in desperate need of being added.
Good comments Andrew... Couldn't you use Tickets to accomplish the very same operating model?
Well, we've (reluctantly) made the decision to upgrade to the Corp edition. Frankly, it was a close call with the alternative being to pay one of my programmers to tweak Webcollab or PHPCollab to meet our needs exactly. But with comments like Sebastians, we've decided to try 30 days and a couple projects to see if we can fall in love as well ;-)
I do hope to see a further momentum on the need to change this Tickets thing. IMHO, this is a totally confusing misnomer...
One more time:
1. Change Tickets to Tasks
2. Change Tasks to Subtasks
3. Eliminate Checklists (or move it to Corp if there is some reason to keep it that I'm not understanding and change tasks to subtasks).
Make that your small biz edition, raise price to $249 or even $299
Corp edition adds Time, Pages, Calendar priced at $399
(You might also add a free version that is the Small Biz for 1 or 2 projects).
==> Happier, less confused users. And therefore more users, more customers, more funds for development.
Well, we've (reluctantly) made the decision to upgrade to the Corp edition. Frankly, it was a close call with the alternative being to pay one of my programmers to tweak Webcollab or PHPCollab to meet our needs exactly. But with comments like Sebastians, we've decided to try 30 days and a couple projects to see if we can fall in love as well ;-)
I do hope to see a further momentum on the need to change this Tickets thing. IMHO, this is a totally confusing misnomer...
One more time:
1. Change Tickets to Tasks
2. Change Tasks to Subtasks
3. Eliminate Checklists (or move it to Corp if there is some reason to keep it that I'm not understanding and change tasks to subtasks).
Make that your small biz edition, raise price to $249 or even $299
Corp edition adds Time, Pages, Calendar priced at $399
(You might also add a free version that is the Small Biz for 1 or 2 projects).
==> Happier, less confused users. And therefore more users, more customers, more funds for development.
Sebastian Tänzer
on Feb 23. 2008. 6:55 am
Brian,
I don't see any use in checklists either. Never used them.
A ticket with subtasks has way more functions and does the same.
But perhaps someone out there is using checklists for something useful?
Feedback from the community on this would be great!
I'm all in for the changes you supposed. It would make the whole system a lot easier.
When we introduced aC 2 months ago about the only question I received from our team was about tickets (i.e. "Where does the customer send the email to to open a ticket" and so on...) - most of these because the term "ticket" was known from existing support ticket systems. One can't reinvent the whole project management system and tell the customers "Well, from now on we'll redefine tasks as tickets ...". Just does not work.
I don't see any use in checklists either. Never used them.
A ticket with subtasks has way more functions and does the same.
But perhaps someone out there is using checklists for something useful?
Feedback from the community on this would be great!
I'm all in for the changes you supposed. It would make the whole system a lot easier.
When we introduced aC 2 months ago about the only question I received from our team was about tickets (i.e. "Where does the customer send the email to to open a ticket" and so on...) - most of these because the term "ticket" was known from existing support ticket systems. One can't reinvent the whole project management system and tell the customers "Well, from now on we'll redefine tasks as tickets ...". Just does not work.
Yes, I hope we hear from others on this...
BTW, In the meantime, here's what I did:
1. Used the tip previously posted on hiding the time tab but instead I hid the Checklists and Pages tab from everyone.
2. I hid the Time tab from the client view using the tip. We don't have plans to use it but I thought I might want to play with it.
3. Changed the text displayed on the Tickets tab for everyone to "Tasks (Tickets)". I'm still going to have to explain this but at least it will cause users to ask questions instead of thinking it's a Trouble Ticket.
Took me about 10 minutes do this.
BTW, In the meantime, here's what I did:
1. Used the tip previously posted on hiding the time tab but instead I hid the Checklists and Pages tab from everyone.
2. I hid the Time tab from the client view using the tip. We don't have plans to use it but I thought I might want to play with it.
3. Changed the text displayed on the Tickets tab for everyone to "Tasks (Tickets)". I'm still going to have to explain this but at least it will cause users to ask questions instead of thinking it's a Trouble Ticket.
Took me about 10 minutes do this.
cbtrussell
on Feb 23. 2008. 8:21 pm
I'll chime in as someone who does NOT want to see checklists eliminated.
We are just starting to actively utilize aC for our projects. We have a well defined project process and use the same steps for every project.
Milestones represent phases of the project (usually only 4 or 5)
Checklists represent groups of tasks required by the project process
- each checklist has anywhere from 2-10 subtasks that are assigned to project participants with due dates as appropriate
Tickets are used to track issues/requests that are NOT explicitly addressed by the process - in other words, anything that comes up outside of the process is documented in a ticket and then assigned to a participant for resolution.
So from our perspective, it is critical that the checklist function remain in aC, and be separate from tickets. But I would like to be able to comments on checklist tasks and also be able to attach time to them.
Brandon
We are just starting to actively utilize aC for our projects. We have a well defined project process and use the same steps for every project.
Milestones represent phases of the project (usually only 4 or 5)
Checklists represent groups of tasks required by the project process
- each checklist has anywhere from 2-10 subtasks that are assigned to project participants with due dates as appropriate
Tickets are used to track issues/requests that are NOT explicitly addressed by the process - in other words, anything that comes up outside of the process is documented in a ticket and then assigned to a participant for resolution.
So from our perspective, it is critical that the checklist function remain in aC, and be separate from tickets. But I would like to be able to comments on checklist tasks and also be able to attach time to them.
Brandon
Good comments Brandon. It sounds like you are using the classic interpretation of Tickets. ;-) However, I'm getting the impression that what most users are doing, is using Tickets the way you are using Checklists.
In fact, for your situation, if Tickets was renamed to Checklists and Checklists was renamed to Tickets, wouldn't that give you everything you're looking for?
Ilija, my sense is that you don't see this issue as a priority but I think Brandon's comments point out that the longer you wait to address it, the more difficult it is going to be for you to make any changes. And without those changes, you're constraining new customer adoption.
In fact, for your situation, if Tickets was renamed to Checklists and Checklists was renamed to Tickets, wouldn't that give you everything you're looking for?
Ilija, my sense is that you don't see this issue as a priority but I think Brandon's comments point out that the longer you wait to address it, the more difficult it is going to be for you to make any changes. And without those changes, you're constraining new customer adoption.
